I just wanted to let y'all know that I've been taking a little time off. I'm just trying to relax and come back with a fresh perspective. There has been just way too much breaking down and way too little uplifting and encouragement both in real life and in the internet world. Way too much it seems, people like to just get others to say "I agree with you" and not allow for the working of God. And then on the other hand, others only allow for the fluid working of God and don't believe anything is set in stone. I actually heard a "Christian" argue that homosexuality is not sin. It was not an argument that God loves the homosexual; it was an argument that it just isn't a sin to begin with. In fact the arguments go to the extreme on sin - as it does with everything else.
I miss the days where true believers lived a life of encouragement and uplifting. I don't know if that kind of a world can exist on the internet, but it is really discouraging when it starts disappearing from real life also.
So, my encouragement to all of you today. Stop the arguing. Read the Bible and understand what the fruit of the Spirit are and the fruit of the world. And as you understand, start living the fruit of the Spirit in every word and deed of your life. If you do, you will find that your life has changed - as any life filled with the Spirit of our God is changed.
Grace and peace friends.
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21 comments:
Geppy,
I agree that breaks are a must with blogs. Also, I think some like to argue or have some agenda. Our goal should be to search for truth, humble ourselves and not lean on our own understanding. On the other hand, I think some people are genuine with good intentions and are just trying to defend what they believe.
I hear you Craig. I did that too. But you know what? I don't think God needs defending. His sheep hear his voice, and the goats and wolves don't. If you speak the word of God in love, those that are meant to hear will hear. But the ends do not ever justify the means.
Matt 7:1-6 : Jesus tells us not to judge.
Matt 7:7-12 : Jesus tells us to seek God and to give the good gifts.
Matt 7:13-14 : Jesus says that this way is narrow and few can find it.
Matt 7:15-20 : Jesus tells us that no good tree will bear bad fruit and no bad tree will bear good fruit. We are meant to know who are brothers and sisters are.
Matt 7:21-23 : Jesus tells us that only those who do the will of the Father will enter heaven. And prophecy and casting out demons (ie, "defending God") will not get you in heaven.
Matt 7:24-27 : Jesus then says that those who hear what he has said here and DOES them will have built his house on the Rock and will not be lost.
So, it is very important to understand what God truly wants from his children and to do it. We are told to go and tell of what he has done. We are not told to go and defend doctrines and policies and rules, ad nauseum. God cares about what we do; that it is love God and love neighbor - and be at peace with all mankind.
Anyway, that is just my opinion and my 2 cents. If it contains God's words, then his sheep will hear them. It it doesn't, no one will truly hear.
I personally believe them to be God's words and thus I will try to do what he says to do. I pray that I can practice these words.
Geppy,
I agree God does not need us to defend Him nor does He need us for anything. I have to say that I have noticed that you have defended sound doctrine numerous times. You do so all the time when you cite scripture on the true way to receive salvation. You made a post not to long ago about baptism and salvation. Like you pointed out in Matthew 7:13-14 the way is narrow. There is only one way and one meaning. I have to say doctrine is very important.
2 Timothy 4:1-3 "I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will com when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers."
Titus 1:9 "holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
Thanks for the compliment Craig. I think that this post is about "sound doctrine" - and that what we pass off as doctrine isn't. But, I'm having a hard time pinpointing my discomfort with many different discussions. I think it is because I do not like trying to decide if someone is a brother/sister in Christ - but Jesus seems to be very clear. No good tree can bear bad fruit.
Galatians 5:22-23 (TNIV)
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."
But this is not what I see in a lot of internet discussions - and also lately in real life. Instead, useless arguments over meaningless technicalities - or over true statements, but statements that do not impact faith in Christ and living a Spirit filled life.
Galatians 5:26-6:5 (TNIV)
"Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. If any of you think you are something when you are nothing, you deceive yourselves. Each of you should test your own actions. Then you can take pride in yourself, without comparing yourself to somebody else, for each of you should carry your own load."
So it is a tough line to walk. Those who "throw judgment" around seem to me to be proud in themselves and conceited. I have been that way once or twice - even though it is a violation of our Lord's command. My goal is to be better than what I was, and to speak it so others might hear and also be better. Also, in hope that those who might currently be leaning in that way can see the sin (if sin it is) and cut that fruit off before it grows into a full-fledged fruit. Thus, the Spirit can send life to good fruit instead (much like a rose bush - as I am learning).
Galatians 6:10 (TNIV)
"Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers."
Good does not include the fruit that I have seen. There is an argument for doctrine, but the argument is not sound doctrine. No sound doctrine will include the fruit of the sinful nature.
Romans 1:28-32 (TNIV)
"Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."
And Craig, thank you for the quote from Titus. I think a good closing to my thoughts is Titus 3 (the whole chapter, though clips also below).
Titus 3:1-2, 8-11 (TNIV)
"Remind the people ... to be ready to do whatever is good, to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.... And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.
But avoid foolish controversies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn divisive people once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned."
I have met many brothers and sisters in this internet world. But these are the end times, and thus of necessity there is a great deception on the land. This proudful arguing between God's family is not right. Then again, maybe it really isn't God's family. We'll know someday, but until then I will hope that it is.
Geppy,
I think we are have similar thoughts on this matter. I know I have started to become more selective on whose blog I post and on what topics. I think some are traps that end in fruitless debate.
You make a good point about end times and deception. There are a lot of false teachings and people who say they are Christians and are not, but we will find out at some point.
I have tried to give people the benefit of the doubt. I once heard the analogy that if someone found the cure for AIDS or cancer, would they not be emotional and very persistant to try and convince people. Likewise, having the knowledge of eternal salvation, people can become forceful or perceived as non-loving. I would say that while that might not be the correct way, but the intentions are good.
"Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen." -Ephesians 4:29
My problem is that there is a fine line between building someone up and tearing someone down. I'm working on recognizing that line, but I'm not sure I'm quite there yet. I suspect many others don't recognize that line either.
Just thinking about the sermon I posted on the wheat and the weeds from this Sunday.
If a Christian disagrees with you, who is wrong?
But that's the whole point DP. It's not about who is wrong. It is about both sides living the fruit of the spirit and pruning the rest out of themselves. It is not about one showing another where they are wrong, but for each of us to be searching out where we are not correct. It is about the continual seeking of God and his righteousness. In short, it is about the continual life of repentance.
Sounds like a very idealistic world you live in Geppy. I don't know that I could simply sit back and watch a friend of mine sit under bad teaching and just hope that he "finds where he is incorrect."
Let's be honest, I've been knit-picky in the past, but if someone is teaching something that is blatently wrong and clearly not inline with scripture, isn't the most loving thing I can do to point out the bad teaching. otherwise, that teacher could willingly or unwillingly drag countless souls to Hell with him whil I just hope that they see the error out of fear of myself being percieved as judgemental.
Frankly, sometimes I'll let myself be seen as judgemental if I know that that persons perception is wrong. certainly in the case of pointing out bad teaching for someones own good.
Hey Timm.
Yes, I do live in an idealistic world - for I live in the Kingdom of God. All I can do is to do my best to live as citizens of the Kingdom are described in Scripture. Of which is trust in God, that he will call his sheep.
We are called to tell of what he has done - in as peaceable and loving a manner as we are capable of. We do not need to convince anyone for his sheep will hear his voice in what we say. And if it is having a hard time getting thru to them, its because it is not time yet under His plan.
If we cannot live the idealism of the Kingdom as Jesus described it, then we have no rights to be telling/preaching/teaching others what to do - that is taking the mote out of your own eye first.
How can you live in a kingdom that we are told to pray for its commencement? "Our Father who is in Heaven, Holy is your name, your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven..."
Geppy, I have a question for you. What do you see a Christian's responsibility when it comes to fellow brother's and sisters? Specifically in the arena of accountability.
Thanks.
j razz
Here is just one passage that speaks of the Kingdom of God being now. Do a Bible search on it; Jesus spoke many times that the Kingdom was here, now ready for us to accept it.
Luke 17:20-21 (ASV)
"And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you."
Also, how can we be citizens of the Kingdom if we are not already a part of it?
Phil 3:20-21 (ASV)
"For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: who shall fashion anew the body of our humiliation, that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working whereby he is able even to subject all things unto himself."
The prayer that you quoted speaks of a continous coming of the Kingdom - not a one time only coming.
As far as accountability between brethren and our responsibility - I have spoken clearly enough throughout my posts on my belief. Feel free to ask me questions to become more specific if you wish, but I believe I have previously answered this question.
"If we cannot live the idealism of the Kingdom as Jesus described it, then we have no rights to be telling/preaching/teaching others what to do - that is taking the mote out of your own eye first."
Perhaps we should remove all of the epistles from the bible. They are after all written by imperfect men who clearly had motes in their own eyes and yet the would dare to describe how to live a life as God would have us live it.
Let's please be sensible in our interpretations of scriptures like Matthew 7:5
first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
First, the Apostles lived and walked with Jesus. They heard everything first hand and know a lot more than any of us.
Second, the churches were founded by the Apostles and thus were under their charge. They had an actual authority over those people in the Kingdom.
So, can you see a difference between those relationships and internet relationships? Between internet relationships and Pastor/congregation relationships?
Regarding Matt 7:5, are you completely without sin? If not, then you still have your own motes and planks.
Ah, I am glad you quoted those scriptures. Based on what you said you see a "now" and "not yet" principle at work yes?
We do belong to another Kingdom but that Kingdom is not fully realized as of yet and will not be until Christ crushes all of His enemies. I think we are on the same page on this- not that that matters.
I was hoping you were not saying that you somehow live in a Kingdom that is not habitable by us at this time in the way that it will be (now, not yet) as we are aliens in this world...
As for my other question, can you point me to a specific post of yours on how you deal with accountability to the scriptures amongst brothers in Christ? Thanks.
j razz
"can you point me to a specific post of yours on how you deal with accountability to the scriptures amongst brothers in Christ?"
Not really. It is many posts and comments. Maybe I'll consolidate into a post in the future. That is way too long winded for a comment. ;)
Let me know when you do if you don't mind as I would be interested to read it.
j razz
Don't you see that you are applying your own rules to the remove your plank verse? You say it's OK for Paul to rebuke because he walked with Jesus. It's OK for a Pastor to rebuke his congregation because it is a closer relationship with them. These are all very good points, but they have nothing to do with Matthew 7:5. They are your rules that you have applied to that verse.
Matthew 7:5 is an awesome verse, but is it really saying that we can not rebuke others.... period. Comparing it to what seems to be a clear instruction that we should rebuke others found all over the Bible, it would seem there must be a different explanation.
See my latest entry if you're interested.
Timm,
I see what I am saying as congruent with all of Scripture. Pastors are given authority. The Apostles were given authority. With those that you lead to Christ, you have been given an authority. This is all covered in the Epistles.
Here on the internet, there is no authority between us; unless we agree to it and submit to it. There is the "submit yourselves one to another" but that two way street is rarely followed. The few times on the internet that I've seen it followed, it is just a ploy to look better to the other readers. The most often used is "the Bible says we should submit to each other; I think you are wrong and this is why; submit to me."
And I've never said that you can not rebuke; I've just said that it probably isn't the best way to go. Speak in love, live the life of the Kingdom, speak what you think God is saying, and he will use it all according to his purposes.
I'm at least encouraged to read that you believe there are situations where rebuking is OK and even called for. I'm also happy to agree to disagree on when it is appropriate.
I will say, however, that I'm of the belief that often, rebuking someone is the absolute most loving thing you can do. I will punish my children even if it causes them to view me as "the bad guy." I know you will tell me that I have the authority to rebuke my children, but my greater point is that being seen as the bad guy is worth it to me if it benefits my hearers in the long run.
I also subscribe to the Romans 8:28 absolute sovereignty of God. He works through all things, and I trust that as I rebuke as the bible says I should, that God will use that rebuke for his good and his glory. I'm big enough to admit that I may be wrong, but I have yet to find the biblical evidence to say so. I pray I'm not.
Thanks for the dialog, Gepster.
As I said, I'll have to do a post later. Given your post at your site and your comments here I haven't yet explained things well enough. Your post is dead on to what I'm saying. Make sure in your studies for that post that you also research the "with great patience and careful instruction."
That is the gist of what I'm saying.
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